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Thread: PlayStation 5 Launches Holiday 2020

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    Gaming Wizard Lord of the Pies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyt Ryda View Post
    Wow. How the heck are next gen games going to run on PC, is the "PC Master Race" going to become the limiting audience for next gen games ?

    Would developers eventually design for PS5/XBSX only ?
    I mean, very few PCs have 6 cores and even fewer with 8, and a tiny fraction with more than 12. I don't see how magical Big Navi or Ampere graphics cards can overcome the lack of power when looking at the CPUs and SSDs used on PC.

    This also makes me wonder how Microsoft is going to tackle their first party titles, as they've been on PC day one but I don't see how an XBSX exclusive utilizing all the IO is going to run on most PCs unless they seriously cut back.
    Lmao. Don't worry about PC gaming - it will be perfectly fine. You're talking about consoles that are still months away from launching and that will stay the same for years. PCs will adapt very quickly to any changes to the gaming landscape and improve year on year. By the time XBSX and PS5 are 2-3 years old and true next-gen titles are starting to hit, PC gamers will have substantially more powerful hardware available for purchase compared to today.

    It also comes down to necessity. Currently there is no meaningful performance benefit between a SATA SSD and NVMe SSD. Or in having a CPU beyond an i7 from the last few years. If a benefit suddenly appears then gamers and the market will react.

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    Gaming Wizard StarBound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of the Pies View Post
    It also comes down to necessity. Currently there is no meaningful performance benefit between a SATA SSD and NVMe SSD. Or in having a CPU beyond an i7 from the last few years. If a benefit suddenly appears then gamers and the market will react.
    That is because no one has fully embraced it. RDR2 is huge in terms of data size and could have been cut down dramatically if data duplication didn't happen.

    I don't think we will see games adapt to these storage devices in 6 months time but after that we might see more and more of the higher end games start using these storage devices as ram pools. It will certainly be interesting to see how this works considering the SeX is not going to match the PS5.

    As stated earlier this might actually be like the first 3D accelerators that came out so imagine people having to spend R3k on a 1TB m.2 storage instead of a graphics card.
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    Gaming Wizard Lord of the Pies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarBound View Post
    That is because no one has fully embraced it. RDR2 is huge in terms of data size and could have been cut down dramatically if data duplication didn't happen.

    I don't think we will see games adapt to these storage devices in 6 months time but after that we might see more and more of the higher end games start using these storage devices as ram pools. It will certainly be interesting to see how this works considering the SeX is not going to match the PS5.

    As stated earlier this might actually be like the first 3D accelerators that came out so imagine people having to spend R3k on a 1TB m.2 storage instead of a graphics card.
    It could happen - no one can say otherwise. But imo it is very unlikely that the PS5/XSX era will see storage speeds meaning so much. If one component is going to completely run away and leave everything else in its dust, I just don't see that being storage drives. CPU and GPU limitations have and will continue to define console gaming forever, until cloud gaming takes over and there is no more console gaming.

    Few people are more passionate about the kind of gaming technology that requires ultra-fast storage than Mark Cerny, and he was crystal clear in his presentation about this sort of thing being for the long-term future of gaming.

    My personal theory is that he had wanted to accomplish it with PS5 and then that plan had to be scrapped, leaving nothing but a weirdly fast storage drive behind that was already set in stone.

    I think a more interesting conversation is what is going to happen with the installation sizes of next-gen games. Cinema quality assets in Unreal Engine 5 or similar are going to require staggering amounts of space. We already have games that are 150-200GB. If the new norm becomes 250-400GB for AAA titles, that could be a nice little push for cloud gaming. No downloads, no installation process, no updates, no local storage, no super expensive NVMe storage addons for consoles and an incomparably lower impact on data consumption will be very enticing to many gamers.

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    Gaming Wizard StarBound's Avatar
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    The prospect of leaving my game time in someone elses hands is something I do not like one bit. I've already had the issue this year when GW2 rolled back 3 days of progress and then took 2 days to put everything back in place. How many times did I want to play WoW years ago with server login taking hours or a patch that got deployed took ages to implement.

    Cloud gaming is not for me.

    But also the thing comes back to the custom additions to the SSD with the hardware decompression that no other SSD will have on the PC market since it is a gaming feature.
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarBound View Post
    The prospect of leaving my game time in someone elses hands is something I do not like one bit. I've already had the issue this year when GW2 rolled back 3 days of progress and then took 2 days to put everything back in place. How many times did I want to play WoW years ago with server login taking hours or a patch that got deployed took ages to implement.

    Cloud gaming is not for me.

    But also the thing comes back to the custom additions to the SSD with the hardware decompression that no other SSD will have on the PC market since it is a gaming feature.
    There's other bespoke custom silicon for other things besides decompression,

    I'm sure pc will be able to brute force their way through all the nex gen games though without any special components.

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    Gaming Wizard StarBound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vast_aire View Post
    There's other bespoke custom silicon for other things besides decompression,

    I'm sure pc will be able to brute force their way through all the nex gen games though without any special components.
    It will have to because that chip has a specific purpose. However I am not sure how much it does and how much bandwidth it actually has an impact on on the cpu. I can imagine that quad channel for the bandwidth requirements might be more needed than people thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of the Pies View Post
    Lmao. Don't worry about PC gaming - it will be perfectly fine. You're talking about consoles that are still months away from launching and that will stay the same for years. PCs will adapt very quickly to any changes to the gaming landscape and improve year on year. By the time XBSX and PS5 are 2-3 years old and true next-gen titles are starting to hit, PC gamers will have substantially more powerful hardware available for purchase compared to today.

    It also comes down to necessity. Currently there is no meaningful performance benefit between a SATA SSD and NVMe SSD. Or in having a CPU beyond an i7 from the last few years. If a benefit suddenly appears then gamers and the market will react.
    While I agree that PCs will catch and pass the consoles like always, it’s only that top 5% of PC gamers that have high end systems. The vast majority run at low specs. Will those players be left behind if they don’t significantly upgrade?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarioAna View Post
    While I agree that PCs will catch and pass the consoles like always, it’s only that top 5% of PC gamers that have high end systems. The vast majority run at low specs. Will those players be left behind if they don’t significantly upgrade?
    If they don’t care now why should they care in the future. Some people are happy to play CS for ever.

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  11. #2409
    Very Senior Member Nyt Ryda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarBound View Post
    I don't think we will see games adapt to these storage devices in 6 months time but after that we might see more and more of the higher end games start using these storage devices as ram pools.
    I think The Medium will give us a pretty good indication of next gen if a 500Mb/s SATA SSD is going to be required as a minimum. Also interested to see if 12Gb (or even 16Gb) RAM becomes the new minimum.

    Of course PC gaming will catch up, just at a cost.
    Late '22/early '23 we'll probably be on 16-32 Zen 5 cores with DDR5 and much faster PCIE 4.0 NVMEs which should be able to brute force anything out there.


    What the PS5's insane IO does mean is that PS5 first party devs will probably think it's not worth the effort to bring PS5 exclusives to PC, but we only had a handful of PS4 exclusives come to PC this gen anyway.

  12. #2410
    Gaming Wizard StarBound's Avatar
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    I'm thinking SATA ports will become a thing of the past but not sure how soon. There will be a lot of games that wont be taking advantage of the speed increases though but for the most part it should end up like 3d accelerators where at first people didn't buy them because of price, then people might go for cheaper alternatives like how voxels were used for a time but ultimately we will settle on some form of nvme drives. If not within the next 2 years then within the next 5 years.

    But again there are also other things that will need addressing. For starters we will have to see the minimum core count needed over the next 5 years. Odds are that even though the ryzen 3600 is great value now in 5 years it wont be enough to run the higher end games. The memory bandwidth between the cpu and memory will need to be addressed so thats DDR5 in quad channel configs. With nvme drives linked to your CPU a pcie lane increase to CPU might also be needed so 16x for graphics and 8x for nvme drives.

    The last thing everyone is going to focus on is sound which should also take up significant resources if you dedicate an entire core/thread to audio but thats only if we look at sound the same quality of the PS5. Still its not too hard to imagine with CPUs that have so many cores that developers just offloads it to a core unless your dedicated sound chip can handle it.
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