General AV Chat

[Old User]

I'd still like to know if Soundbar configuration choice means strictly single-device soundbars that sit by the TV or would it be aware of full fledges soundbars with rear and even side speakers.

They could really add a bit more configuration detail in the interface for this.

 

[KenMasters]

I'd still like to know if Soundbar configuration choice means strictly single-device soundbars that sit by the TV or would it be aware of full fledges soundbars with rear and even side speakers.

AV Amplifier is the one to go for in that case - opening up the surround options.

TV and Soundbar are probably the same - maybe they figure labelling it that way is easier for most people to understand. Same way in-game dynamic range options are usually labelled by device or situation - TV, night etc.

 

[Old User]

AV Amplifier is the one to go for in that case - opening up the surround options.

TV and Soundbar are probably the same - maybe they figure labelling it that way is easier for most people to understand. Same way in-game dynamic range options are usually labelled by device or situation - TV, night etc.

Yeah it’s just getting a bit muddy now that you have Atmos in the mix with soundbars.

So I’m going to assume it only retains the front sound stage. Would have been more useful if you could just select your Atmos configuration much like you choose 5.1 and 7.1 etc.

Don’t think TV and Soundbar would be the same as one is unlikely to have a centre channel.

 

[KenMasters]

Yeah it’s just getting a bit muddy now that you have Atmos in the mix with soundbars.

To me it doesn't make a difference, you'd select the Atmos output option for the AV receiver, same as you would before (assuming you're happy with that audio mix).

So I’m going to assume it only retains the front sound stage.

That is what I would assume.

Would have been more useful if you could just select your Atmos configuration much like you choose 5.1 and 7.1 etc.

That wouldn't be useful, Atmos is Atmos - your AV Amplifier would assign channels as per its setup configuration.

Don’t think TV and Soundbar would be the same as one is unlikely to have a centre channel.

I would think the Soundbar option also stereo (since the point of a centre channel is generally moot in the context of a soundbar) - but I can check easily enough. Will report back in a bit.

EDIT: Okay, interestingly enough TV and Soundbar are the same - they are both 7.1!

I guess the AV Amplifier option is there to allow for a higher degree of customisation.

 

[Old User]

To me it doesn't make a difference, you'd select the Atmos output option for the AV receiver, same as you would before (assuming you're happy with that audio mix).



That is what I would assume.



That wouldn't be useful, Atmos is Atmos - your AV Amplifier would assign channels as per its setup configuration.



I would think the Soundbar option also stereo (since the point of a centre channel is generally moot in the context of a soundbar) - but I can check easily enough. Will report back in a bit.

A built-in sound test function is really lacking on the PS5 it would have answered these confusions quite simply.

Just tested and the rear channels don’t work for the menu music on Atmos whether Soundbar or Receiver selected.

Will need to fire up a game that is known to support it later and see what happens.

Hopefully this will sort out the audio delay finally so I don’t have to play everything in Stereo or swop cables.

 

[KenMasters]

Just tested and the rear channels don’t work for the menu music on Atmos whether Soundbar or Receiver selected.

But Home Screen Music doesn't work for regular surround either?

Hopefully this will sort out the audio delay finally so I don’t have to play everything in Stereo or swop cables.

What audio delay - are you using ARC?

 

[Old User]

But Home Screen Music doesn't work for regular surround either?

Yeah I learnt that now, trying to test it. [emoji1787]

What audio delay - are you using ARC?

Yeah when using ARC massive delay on anything not Atmos as it processes it all down.

Stereo works fine…but then it’s stereo.

Apple TV and Xbox consuming the two ports on the soundbar side.

When I get really setup for a serious session I swop cables.

 

[MarioAna]

I've given up on sound, need to get mine sorted out. Since i bought my LG C1 my Yamaha Soundbar just never connects to it consistently using ARC. Was never a problem with the previous TV (Samsung) but on the LG i can get it to work by resetting everything but without fail, after a day or 2 it just stops making the link for whatever reason.

Now i'm scared to get something new in case the same thing happens.

 

[KenMasters]

Yeah when using ARC massive delay on anything not Atmos as it processes it all down.

Stereo works fine…but then it’s stereo.

Hmm, you say your Xbox's Atmos works through your TV's ARC? That would indicate that the Xbox is delivering Atmos through Dolby Digital Plus - which would explain why there's a small delay in relation to the Xbox's regular sound options. I would think the PS5 is utilising PCM for Atmos, so you might still be stuck with a delay there, or just get stereo. Report back and let us know.

Yeah it's super frustrating because it should just work. I mean the two devices are directly connected with a cable. You'd think that would be the easiest thing. To make it worse it was working perfectly fine with the previous TV.

CEC is notoriously fickle. When it works it's great, but it can be a real pain otherwise. It's never been practical to implement in my setup, it's universal remotes for me.

 

[Old User]

Hmm, you say your Xbox's Atmos works through your TV's ARC? That would indicate that the Xbox is delivering Atmos through Dolby Digital Plus - which would explain why there's a small delay in relation to the Xbox's regular sound options. I would think the PS5 is utilising PCM for Atmos, so you might still be stuck with a delay there, or just just get stereo. Report back and let us know.




CEC is notoriously fickle. When it works it's great, but it can be a real pain otherwise. It's never been practical to implement in my setup, it's universal remotes for me.

No no, the Xbox and the Apple TV are directly connected to the Soundbar so no ARC involved and no delay issues and wired up like this because they are my most used devices.

Xbox uses Dolby Atmos MAT, but I'm guessing if you did use ARC it would probably fail over to Dolby Digital Plus....never actually tried it.

But generally I seem to remember I had no issues on the Apple TV when it was outputting Atmos via ARC, the problem was with everything else that wasn't natively Atmos, which is why I'm hopeful the PS5 will be better now as it seems like it will encapsulate everything inside Atmos. Think it's because the TV natively supports Atmos so it doesn't try to reprocess it when it's Atmos incoming.

Will certainly find out soon enough, hopefully have some time to fiddle tonight.

 

[KenMasters]

No no, the Xbox and the Apple TV are directly connected to the Soundbar so no ARC involved and no delay issues and wired up like this because they are my most used devices.

Okay, I thought you meant it worked through the TV without a delay.

Xbox uses Dolby Atmos MAT but I'm guessing if you did use ARC it would probably fail over to Dolby Digital Plus....never actually tried it.

Ah, makes much more sense that the Xbox would use PCM. Running it through your TV, it would be interesting if it did convert it to DD+ - I could see it playing back in stereo.

I haven't tried Atmos on the Xbox, I just heard John Linneman on the DF podcast mention that there was a delay on the Xbox - maybe introduced by the extra step of processing the metadata.

But generally I seem to remember I had no issues on the Apple TV when it was outputting Atmos via ARC...

Sorry, you're getting my thoughts here in real-time - okay, so Dolby MAT worked on the Apple TV to the TV then out via ARC, so it would convert it to DD+

...the problem was with everything else that wasn't natively Atmos, which is why I'm hopeful the PS5 will be better now as it seems like it will encapsulate everything inside Atmos. Think it's because the TV natively supports Atmos so it doesn't try to reprocess it when it's Atmos incoming.

Except that ARC shouldn't be capable of transmitting multi-channel PCM, so it would need to be converted.

EDIT:


This is the C7 ARC table - doesn't look like it would convert PCM to DD+

 

[AdrianH]

Hmm, you say your Xbox's Atmos works through your TV's ARC? That would indicate that the Xbox is delivering Atmos through Dolby Digital Plus - which would explain why there's a small delay in relation to the Xbox's regular sound options. I would think the PS5 is utilising PCM for Atmos, so you might still be stuck with a delay there, or just get stereo. Report back and let us know.
.

I also get delays from XB to TVs, LG Oled and Samsung Qled. This is for both Dolby Digital and Dolby Atmos.

The only audio settings that worked without delays are "Stereo uncompressed", “5.1 uncompressed" and "7.1 uncompressed" which presume are PCM formats?

 

[KenMasters]

I also get delays from XB to TVs, LG Oled and Samsung Qled. This is for both Dolby Digital and Dolby Atmos.

The only audio settings that worked without delays are "Stereo uncompressed", “5.1 uncompressed" and "7.1 uncompressed" which presume are PCM formats?

Yip, all PCM - but so is Dolby MAT.

 

[AdrianH]

Yip, all PCM - but so is Dolby MAT.

So the assumption we can make is the audio from games is outputted raw PCM multi-channel, and the XB has to encode to Dolby format if you want Dolby Digital or Dolby Atmos which causes the slight but noticeable delay?

 

[Old User]

This is the C7 ARC table - doesn't look like it would convert PCM to DD+

So we may still win here? Assuming the PS5 is outputting in PCM that is and not Dolby Digital + already.

Sadly I can’t see that level of detail from the soundbar.

I think the Apple TV does bitstream for Dolby Atmos but PCM for everything else which is why I always had delays there but now I’m also questioning myself.

And actually I remember now I did have the Xbox on ARC at first but then I bizarrely lost some Atmos speakers channels. Or rather they overlapped with each other so like Rear Left and Surround Left would be the same and I think the Verticals also didn’t work so assumed the TV caused it.

Directly connected it all works fine. But this was like way back so could have been addressed with firmware updates.

If you have a way to reliably test Atmos channel output on the PS5 that would help helpful. I’ll probably try Plex with the file I have but I’m not sure it will handle the passthrough.

 

[Old User]

So the assumption we can make is the audio from games is outputted raw PCM multi-channel, and the XB has to encode to Dolby format if you want Dolby Digital or Dolby Atmos which causes the slight but noticeable delay?

Not the Xbox, the TV is causing the delay.

And in my experience it’s very very far from slight. It’s ridiculously bad.

 

[KenMasters]

So the assumption we can make is the audio from games is outputted raw PCM multi-channel, and the XB has to encode to Dolby format if you want Dolby Digital or Dolby Atmos which causes the slight but noticeable delay?

Uncompressed game audio is PCM, but the consoles allow you to convert PCM to lossy DD or DTS.

Atmos is also PCM on console, no lossy conversion required - but it does come packaged with an extra meta layer for the height channels, the processing of which might be what's responsible for the delay Linneman mentioned.

Not the Xbox, the TV is causing the delay.

I believe Linneman was talking about straight from the Xbox .

 

[KenMasters]

So we may still win here? Assuming the PS5 is outputting in PCM that is and not Dolby Digital + already.

ARC is only capable of stereo PCM, so it wouldn't be a win.

DD+ is very unlikely for either console, since the audio needs to be encoded in realtime - the fact that both consoles only offer basic DD and DTS hints at that being too heavy to be feasible.

I think the Apple TV does bitstream for Dolby Atmos but PCM for everything else which is why I always had delays there but now I’m also questioning myself.

Everything on the Apple TV is PCM - including Atmos. It does offer the option of converting PCM to DD and DTS like the consoles though (but not DD+ - so no Atmos).

If you have a way to reliably test Atmos channel output on the PS5 that would help helpful. I’ll probably try Plex with the file I have but I’m not sure it will handle the passthrough.

Atmos is the full True HD bed layer + metadata.

 

[AdrianH]

Not the Xbox, the TV is causing the delay.

Some people are saying connecting the XB directly to soundbar and then connecting the soundbar to TV removes lag from XB when using Dolby formats.

Other mentioned disabling eARC and VRR on TV also helped with the delay. Could it be something to do with how XB encodes and transmits audio over HDMI 2.1?

My setup it XB -> TV -> Soundbar and I always get Dolby lag.

And in my experience it’s very very far from slight. It’s ridiculously bad.

Yeah yeah, maybe 150ms or so. Slight LOL

 

[Old User]

Everything on the Apple TV is PCM - including Atmos. It does offer the option of converting PCM to DD and DTS like the consoles though (but not DD+ - so no Atmos).

Pretty sure Dolby Atmos specifically is the only thing Bitstream the ATV does as there’s always a big moan from the non-Apple camps that it only does PCM and this was the one exception.

It may have been a case of “also supporting bitstream” specifically for setups that can only support Dolby Atmos over DD+.

****

Hmm could be I’m confusing the issue through my research of Infuse that will convert bitstream into PCM before output.

But I’m convinced it was something related to Netflix specifically being allowed to output Bitstream on Apple TV and other native streaming apps.

All of this may very well be why it’s directly connected to the soundbar and not going over ARC. I’ve evidently just started purging unnecessary memory allocation for this stuff. [emoji1787]