General AV Chat

[Guest]

This is now woefully off topic but I have somehow managed to entirely break my iPhones ability to switch between Stereo and Spatial Audio now.

I thought maybe this is Apple Soundcheck feature that is just broken and not normalising like it should be an after a couple of times with that on and off on Billy Eilish’s bad guy now mt phone simply says no.

It does highlight what an unexpected revolution Atmos for music was for me though (when properly mastered and not just this converted crap you see everywhere). Stereo feels so “flat” now.

 

[Guest]

Hmm interesting so it seems Sound Check only works on Stereo, toggling it on and off while it plays it very clearly changes the volume but on Atmos it doesn’t do anything.

Interestingly with Sound Check off Stereo is much louder than Atmos and with it on they are more in line with each other with Atmos seeming slightly louder but this I could attribute to the sound stage simply opening up more.

But now this raises some questions for me. If a track is Dolby Atmos mastered on Apple Music and you choose to play it in Stereo is it actually playing you the original stereo or is it doing some bullshit down sampling of the Atmos track using a single version.

Of course Sound Check isn’t present on the Apple TV so that’s a whole other story.

 

[KenMasters]

I’ll have to fiddle with it a bit later, it could very well be that the jump from Stereo to all speaker use just makes it seem that in your face especially with music when it changes between non-Atmos and Atmos tracks.

That could be, although when you say Atmos is much louder, are you talking music specifically, or are you comparing Disney+/Netflix content with an app like YouTube?

 

[Guest]

That could be, although when you say Atmos is much louder, are you talking music specifically, or are you comparing Disney+/Netflix content with an app like YouTube?

Generally whenever I watch anything on Netflix/Disney+/AT+ with an Atmos soundtrack it’s an immediate jump to turn it down a couple of clicks.

Music it’s less pronounced I’d say, but most likely because I’m already in a mood for louder so it wouldn’t bother me too much.

You know part of the problem are those damn branded “chimes” they all use which are just suddenly in your face loud noises and suddenly being in Atmos the sound stage opens up so it’s probably not so much a volume change as much as it just suddenly being everywhere.

 

[KenMasters]

Generally whenever I watch anything on Netflix/Disney+/AT+ with an Atmos soundtrack it’s an immediate jump to turn it down a couple of clicks.

And this is true for any surround soundtrack? As Atmos and DD+ are one in the same.

You know part of the problem are those damn branded “chimes” they all use which are just suddenly in your face loud noises and suddenly being in Atmos the sound stage opens up so it’s probably not so much a volume change as much as it just suddenly being everywhere.

The chime, as in when you enter the app? Because that isn't Atmos. I wonder if it's maybe the way your soundbar processes multichannel tracks, but you say you experience the same thing with you earpods?

EDIT: Another thought, what are you judging loudness by - the dialogue level or other audio effects? I mentioned modal issues earlier, what could be happening is that the dimensions of your room and its reflectivity are summing the output of your speakers at certain frequencies at your listening position. Or maybe it is as simple as you say, all speakers being active vs two.

In a well behaved room, dialogue should be softer in most surround content vs YouTube content, due to the higher dynamic range (volume is centred around the average dialogue level, higher dynamic range necessitates more levels below the average dialogue level).

 

[Guest]

And this is true for any surround soundtrack? As Atmos and DD+ are one in the same.

No specifically Atmos ones, other surround tracks are fine.

The chime, as in when you enter the app? Because that isn't Atmos. I wonder if it's maybe the way your soundbar processes multichannel tracks, but you say you experience the same thing with you earpods?

I mean the Netflix or Apple TV+ sound when an episode starts, it's definitely Atmos as well as it's incorporated inside the episode.

I do seem to remember it being the same with AirPods but will need to specifically test as I don't use it that often with the TV.

But I'm also leaning towards this being more of an internal problem to the soundbar, rather than the Apple TV output itself. Oddly doing a Google it seems many people complain about Atmos actually being 25% softer than other stuff, not louder.

EDIT: Another thought, what are you judging loudness by - the dialogue level or other audio effects? I mentioned modal issues earlier, what could be happening is that the dimensions of your room and its reflectivity are summing the output of your speakers at certain frequencies at your listening position. Or maybe it is as simple as you say, all speakers being active vs two.

Nah like I say the "chime" at the beginning of episodes is already a pronounced volume increase long before dialogue even comes into it.

I'll try to have a fiddle over the weekend or pay special attention when it happens. It could be as simple as the centre channel suddenly seeing more use when switching to Atmos and being perceived as much louder.

Sound bar doesn't have dB volume levels but I want to say where I generally use 10 for most things I drop it down to 8 for Atmos stuff at night when the kids are going to sleep.

If anything my biggest complaint with the sound bar is that it only really comes alive at higher volumes and the whole marketing bullshit of one million watts is a disservice to most people and it would have been far better being lower powered for the 90% use case. The loudest I even put it is 16 or so and that's borderline unreasonable....which I think isn't even 25% of the total volume available.

 

[Guest]

Hmm seems Soundcheck is actually available on the Apple TV just not where one expects...I wonder if I maybe turned it on at some point and forgot about it fixing this without realising for Music.

What should I do if Dolby Atmos tracks sound quieter than stereo tracks?​

Turn on Sound Check. Here’s how:

• On your iPhone or iPad, go to Settings > Music, then turn on Sound Check.
• On your Mac, open the Apple Music app. In the menu bar, choose Music > Preferences or Music > Settings. Click the Playback tab, then select Sound Check to turn it on.
• On your Apple TV, go to Settings > Apps > Music, then turn on Sound Check.

About Spatial Audio with Dolby Atmos in Apple Music – Apple Support (UK)

If you subscribe to Apple Music, you can listen to selected songs in Spatial Audio with Dolby Atmos. Find out which devices support Dolby Atmos and how to change settings for Dolby Atmos, and find answers to common questions so you can start listening.

support.apple.com

 

[KenMasters]

No specifically Atmos ones, other surround tracks are fine.

Something definitely weird then, because Atmos is essentially DD+

But I'm also leaning towards this being more of an internal problem to the soundbar, rather than the Apple TV output itself. Oddly doing a Google it seems many people complain about Atmos actually being 25% softer than other stuff, not louder.

It should be softer for sure - I also suspect the soundbar. Maybe it boosts the volume to enhance the bounce effect (assuming that's how your soundbar operates)?

If anything my biggest complaint with the sound bar is that it only really comes alive at higher volumes and the whole marketing bullshit of one million watts is a disservice to most people and it would have been far better being lower powered for the 90% use case. The loudest I even put it is 16 or so and that's borderline unreasonable....which I think isn't even 25% of the total volume available.

Wattage ratings are widely misunderstood. When it comes to soundbar marketing material, they mean nothing.

 

[Guest]

It should be softer for sure - I also suspect the soundbar. Maybe it boosts the volume to enhance the bounce effect (assuming that's how your soundbar operates)?

That's the odd part the vertical and surround bounce channels are actually so soft out of the box I almost max them out to make them useful.

Rear surrounds also needed quite a bit of help.

Wattage ratings are widely misunderstood. When it comes to soundbar marketing material, they mean nothing.

Yeah I know it's all bullshit that they add them all together to make it sound like one big number.

What I rather mean is that the individual 50W drivers could probably have served it better at 30W or even 25W so that it would require less amp power to get going and operate at lower volumes.

It's basically compromised somewhat so they can put 750W on the box and make it seem like a good thing, and yet nobody will ever use it at peak outputs.

 

[KenMasters]

That's the odd part the vertical and surround bounce channels are actually so soft out of the box I almost max them out to make them useful.

That not perhaps the problem then?

Yeah I know it's all bullshit that they add them all together to make it sound like one big number.

What I rather mean is that the individual 50W drivers could probably have served it better at 30W or even 25W so that it would require less amp power to get going and operate at lower volumes.

It's basically compromised somewhat so they can put 750W on the box and make it seem like a good thing, and yet nobody will ever use it at peak outputs.

It's not just about adding them together, watt figures by themselves are meaningless.

One speaker could play twice as loud as another with half the power, it's how the speaker and amplifier interact that is important - and only in the context of putting a system together yourself.

Soundbar specs in general are nonsense, they quote numbers without defined parameters at unusable distortion levels. On the plus side, that doesn't really matter, because whatever soundbar you go for, the manufacturer would have specced the appropriate amplification for the drivers they've implemented.

 

[AdrianH]

@KenMasters @SauRoN

Here we go, hope I moved all the correct posts

 

[AdrianH]

I have an LG SP8YA 3.1.2 Soundbar. Was quite happy with it, overall a decent soundbar for the price. Support Google Chromecast and Apple Airplay so wife and I can stream music from phones, and Dolby Atmos, and most importantly, has a NIGHT MODE

@SauRoN I also have to increase the output of the upward firing speakers to notice a difference.

LG Soundbar SP8YA - SP8YA | LG UK

Discover LG SP8YA. Click for pictures, reviews, and tech specs for the LG LG Soundbar SP8YA.

www.lg.com

Then earlier this year I came across a good deal on eBay for the discontinued wireless rear speakers, still boxed. So I grabbed them and the audio comes to life with the rears. Its fantastic. When I need to replace at some point, will definitely make sure I get a sound bar that has rear speakers.

 

[Guest]

I have an LG SP8YA 3.1.2 Soundbar. Was quite happy with it, overall a decent soundbar for the price. Support Google Chromecast and Apple Airplay so wife and I can stream music from phones, and Dolby Atmos, and most importantly, has a NIGHT MODE

@SauRoN I also have to increase the output of the upward firing speakers to notice a difference.

View attachment 508 View attachment 509

LG Soundbar SP8YA - SP8YA | LG UK

Discover LG SP8YA. Click for pictures, reviews, and tech specs for the LG LG Soundbar SP8YA.

www.lg.com

Then earlier this year I came across a good deal on eBay for the discontinued wireless rear speakers, still boxed. So |I grabbed them and the audio comes to life with the rears. Its fantastic. When I need to replace at some point, will definitely make sure I get a sound bar that has rear speakers.

View attachment 510

I've basically got the bigger version of that which comes with the rear speakers.

Was dead set on the Sony HT-A9’s but then got the LG for a ridiculous discount and paid for it all with Monopoly money so it was a no brainer.

As such I know it’s not the pinnacle of audio but coming from a point of view of being free it’s magical.

 

[AdrianH]

As such I know it’s not the pinnacle of audio but coming from a point of view of being free it’s magical.

These bars a way good enough for what we use them for

 

[MarioAna]

Was dead set on the Sony HT-A9’s

That’s what I’ve been looking at, I need something that can cope with a very wonky space. The A9s have received such stellar reviews for the surround capability and ease of setup in all spaces, makes a lot of sense for my needs.

With the sub though it’s well over $3k here, which is a lot.

Still need to finish some stuff in the house before properly looking into this. Maybe by then there will be a new version.

 

[Guest]

That’s what I’ve been looking at, I need something that can cope with a very wonky space. The A9s have received such stellar reviews for the surround capability and ease of setup in all spaces, makes a lot of sense for my needs.

With the sub though it’s well over $3k here, which is a lot.

Still need to finish some stuff in the house before properly looking into this. Maybe by then there will be a new version.

Very well lauded all round but every single one says the subwoofer is an absolute must which does make perfect sense to me.

The entire bundle here is R50k which is eye watering and pretty damn unreasonable compared to what I could do with separates. $3k in AUD is a bargain if you ask me.

Then I may as well just put in a full real speaker Atmos setup with Elacs everywhere and probably save some money.

Of course when I bought the LG it was before there was even confirmation of local availability and price and getting it for half price and purely for movies and games it’s a steal and I can’t really see the Sony adding much in the way of value.

Where I was willing to compromise was music as I find myself doing that more and more “where I’m present” rather than taking the active listening approach like I used to. So whether I’m laying in bed on a Saturday morning listening to the HomePod or on the bike listening to AirPods Pro having the music with me has become less important than actual fidelity at a reasonable level of course.

The surprise then was how good Dolby Atmos music tracks are and I’ve made it a bit of an event to sit and specifically listen to those on the soundbar. Stereo it’s not really that great, fine as a “party speaker” (but then I mostly fire up the HomePods anyway).

Live shows in Dolby Atmos are a whole new musical experience. Billie Eilish’s when the party’s over at the Apple Music Live is one of the best Atmos showcases I’ve ever heard. It’s cliche but it really feels like you are standing right there in the golden circle.

Completed unexpected experience. I really anticipated Atmos for Music to be a fad but when done right it’s amazing. Of course there’s a shit load of people doing it badly just jumping on the wagon, but when it’s good it’s real good.

 

[Guest]

Something I’d maybe consider doing down the line is getting a pair of active self-powered speakers that support Airplay purely for stereo music listening, but it would really be one of those nice to have wish list things.

 

[KenMasters]

Talking about surround sound in general, this week our agent brought over agents from different areas around Copenhagen to view our property - five 20 somethings. They did the tour ending in the living-room. They got a kick out of my setup but didn't know what they were looking at.

It's amazing to me how far from the mainstream home theatre has drifted. They were asking me all sorts of questions, what all the speakers are for, what do they do, how does it work - I literally had to explain the concept of surround sound to them (one guy asked if my bass traps were speakers too).

I am aware that younger people tend to watch movies and such on their phones and laptops, but it was eye-opening just how foreign the concept of home theatre has become.

 

[Guest]

Talking about surround sound in general, this week our agent brought over agents from different areas around Copenhagen to view our property - five 20 somethings. They did the tour ending in the living-room. They got a kick out of my setup but didn't know what they were looking at.

It's amazing to me how far from the mainstream home theatre has drifted. They were asking me all sorts of questions, what all the speakers are for, what do they do, how does it work - I literally had to explain the concept of surround sound to them (one guy asked if my bass traps were speakers too).

I am aware that younger people tend to watch movies and such on their phones and laptops, but it was eye-opening just how foreign a concept of a home theatre has become.

Yeah there’s an incredible shift.

The most only external speaker they consider is a Bluetooth one or something like the HomePod or Alexa.

Even stereo isn’t a concept or concern, never mind surround sound.

And don’t get me going on quality and fidelity aspect where it doesn’t bother them in the slightest if it’s tinny as hell and distorting all over the place from their phones at top volume.

It’s going to be very interesting to see how my kids grow up in the modern world of tech. Already a physical mouse/trackpad and keyboard is a weird concept to them as they want to interact directly with the screen.

Had a very funny interaction with a friend’s 13 year old who had no concept of what we meant when we said she must restart her MacBook. The entire thing made no sense to her as she’s used to devices like phones and tablets that don’t ever require this process, it’s simply not something she’s ever needed to do or considered as a troubleshooting process. When we checked the machine had been on for something like 9 months since restarting. Can’t blame her for it, but to us it’s just such a normal process to shutdown a machine or restart it here and there.

My kids already put everything on the family grocery list just taking to Siri. Music they just ask for songs based on the lyrics they’ve heard with no clue who it is or what it’s called and it works pretty much every time.

 

[MarioAna]

It's amazing to me how far from the mainstream home theatre has drifted.

It's worse than you think. I don't know a single person here that has bothered to setup their TVs at all. I'm talking Dynamic from the store with all enhancements on.

Expensive TVs. I don't bother to try and tell them about setup, they are happy so what's the use? Go off Dynamic and it has less "pop" lol.

I don't consider myself a Home Theater buff and certainly a million miles from an audiophile but when i buy anything tech i do some research on how to get the most out of it. I know i don't have it in me to properly do a HT setup with amp and dedicated speakers so the HT-A9s seem like something i could get going quickly without much fuss that will work in my wonky space.