PlayStation 5 Pro (PS5 Pro)

[Nyt Ryda]

- Series S is a failed experiment, just holds back dev now after we've ditched the last gen consoles. It's the reason why Sparking Zero can't have a couch coop mode for all stages and not just the hyperbolic time chamber with reduced debris and complexity. Shame on MS for insisting feature parity clause between the S and the Series X/PS5, they should scrap that clause right now.

- If Sony could release a PS5 for $499 in the middle of a pandemic with a chip shortage, and later cut half the heatsink off to save a fortune on shipping costs around the world, you must be pretty gullible if you think it's as cheap as they could make it. They didn't make much during the shortage but they're making bank now.
The fact is that Xbox is nowhere and Sony can ask what they want. Same with NVIDIA now.

- The only people okay with the pricing of the Pro are those rich enough to not really care. Like BMW M3 owners saying "Well the M3 is for a specific target market, you can always buy the regular 3 series".
There could be a $599 PS6 and $999 PS6 Ultra aimed at 8K and you'd find the same people justifying it because the PS6 is the mainstream one for 4K and it's still the same games just at a lower resolution etc.


- On the PC vs PS5 argument. The 4090 runs games fully Pathtraced with superior machine learning upscaling+frame generation on dedicated hardware, with 1.33x higher internal res and 2.2-3.5x the framerate of the PS5 Pro that's just doing some basic RT reflections in Alan Wake 2.

It's not even a contest if you have the money and problem solving skills, @KenMasters I expect you to come up with a neat solution for your 9800x3D RTX5090 PC next to your setup within 6 months.
The therapist sessions can help you get over your OCD, I assure you that using a keyboard and mouse alongside a controller, setting the game settings to high-ultra and upgrading at the same regularity as a mid-gen console upgrade are achievable goals - you can do it!!

 

[ChazySA]

Spending almost 20k to continue playing at 30fps (but now just with added ray tracing) is a deal breaker for me. If they optimised at 40fps I would have considered the purchase

 

[MarioAna]

The pro comes at a cost and that market that wants the extra are not as price sensitive and would be better off on a PC.

Well no because console gamers DON’T want to play on PC at all. But that doesn’t mean they don’t want better performance and visuals if they can get it on their preferred way to play. They are not looking for ultimate performance across platforms, just on the platform they care about.

It’s like saying any PC gamer not on the top tier GPU should just buy a console because PC gaming is about top performance. PC gamers don’t want to play on consoles, same thing.

 

[AdrianH]

Well no because console gamers DON’T want to play on PC at all.

 

[Nyt Ryda]

 

[AdrianH]

Hey, I wanted to build bridges

 

[KenMasters]

Spending almost 20k to continue playing at 30fps (but now just with added ray tracing) is a deal breaker for me. If they optimised at 40fps I would have considered the purchase

There are two Pro modes, one 30fps and the other 60fps.

 

[Nyt Ryda]

Spending almost 20k to continue playing at 30fps (but now just with added ray tracing) is a deal breaker for me. If they optimised at 40fps I would have considered the purchase

There are two Pro modes, one 30fps and the other 60fps.

So R20k to add PSSR and have the choice of the same 1244p/30fps quality mode with one added element of raytracing (reflections) or the same 864p/60fps mode with graphics settings closer (but not equal) to the old Quality mode.

I can't wait for PS6, this console generation is killing me with how we are accepting mediocrity.

 

[Nyt Ryda]

It's amazing how people are fine with the price because you can stick to the PS5 if you don't want to pay more etc, but when we talk about adding a Pro CPU upgrade to hit 30->60FPS upgrades suddenly price is a concern and thank God Sony didn't do it.

 

[JoE]

Sorry, what now?

The PS5 is sold for as low as Sony can justify to sell it in order to ensure market share. The Pro can afford to stand separate from this, so every unit sold turns a profit.

Don't look at it solely from a console perspective, look at it from the perspective of a hardware company. Sony still makes a wide range of Blu-ray players, how many of those do you think they set, yet they continue to manufacture them because the hardware itself is profitable.



I don't follow you here at all.



Any credible ones? Why would that not be transparent, as with every other timed exclusive? If it were a timed exclusive, Sony would have yelled it from the rooftops.



Yes, because the Series S was not able to maintain parity with the Series X or PS5.



No it doesn't, it proves that the S poses challenges to devs. There is no challenge in scaling up once you have your foundation, it's only a question of wear to allocate the additional capacity.



No, if the PS5 and Series X are the target platform and you're pushing those platforms (just look at the resolutions some games are running at already), scaling down to the S can easily fall into the category of a bridge too far.



The cuts to image quality in order to achieve 60fps can be pretty severe for some, for those people a PS5 that promises a performance mode with image quality roughly equivalent to the fidelity mode would be ideal. And in my case, for some games a 30fps mode that is above the standard fidelity mode would go down a treat with the right titles.



Not all the games, and I personally do not care to own a gaming PC (my reasoning for which I provided earlier in the thread).

What market share concerns lol? They've been in control of the market since the XB1 announcement and are outselling the XSX by many multiples to 1. They're also in a heavy push for digital only storefront (EU regulatory boards must step in) to maximise profits on that front as well and the Pro is a step in the direction of seeing just how strong their position is to bolster future hardware profitability. No doubt the 30th anniversary debacle will boost their confidence as those units sold out in seconds. They're business driven and not pro gamer this gen is basically my point.

They don't need to announce exclusivity for anything these days because MS are doing such a great job of putting all their titles on PS5 anyways. Sources admittedly are sketchy but there's more information saying it is than it isn't so make of that what you wish but we'll know if it eventually comes to XB after a year on PS5.

Apart from Baldur's Gate the series S has maintained parity with its big brother for everything else so I think you have to agree that's way more than most would've expected. If a game has minimum pc requirements then the series s is that for xbox so I don't think its a challenge for a dev to understand those limitations and work toward it especially if upscaling and making things look better for the pro model is so easy by comparison. We've been fed the 30vs60fps story from the PS3 gen and every new console promises this and devs go back to 30 which honestly is fine for except for competitive online mp titles and then graphics doesn't really matter imo. I think targeting 1080p 30fps for the series S isn't an unrealistic challenge and an acceptable compromise for even the end user who probably has an entry level 4K TV at best. So if anything I'd agree that the series S hasn't moved enough units for devs to make the effort.

Your personal preference aligns with my general thinking for a console but these days they're so similar and with MS and Sony peripherals fully supporting PC now, you should really look into Steam Big Picture mode. This video demonstrates how easy the setup will be

 

[JoE]

Well no because console gamers DON’T want to play on PC at all. But that doesn’t mean they don’t want better performance and visuals if they can get it on their preferred way to play. They are not looking for ultimate performance across platforms, just on the platform they care about.

It’s like saying any PC gamer not on the top tier GPU should just buy a console because PC gaming is about top performance. PC gamers don’t want to play on consoles, same thing.

I think it's more our gen as the lines are blurring. My kids are entering their teens and whilst most of their friends have consoles the talk is mostly about PC games these days. My nephews are the same and they're in their early 20's so it's bound to come to a head in the next gen if the PS6 sets the bar of entry too high as then it's more feasible to get a home PC to play games on just like how the console industry crashed in the 70/80s.

 

[KenMasters]

What market share concerns lol? They've been in control of the market since the XB1 announcement and are outselling the XSX by many multiples to 1.

And part of that is making sure their console is priced competitively. They don't have the same concern with the Pro, it stands alone as a product.

Apart from Baldur's Gate the series S has maintained parity with its big brother for everything else...

No it hasn't. I've lost count of the amount of titles that have had RT and other graphical features paired down or stripped away entirely, including performance modes, in order to run on the S, compunded by cuts in resolution to titles who's image quality was already dicey on the X and PS5.

If a game has minimum pc requirements then the series s is that for xbox so I don't think its a challenge for a dev to understand those limitations and work toward it especially if upscaling and making things look better for the pro model is so easy by comparison.

Nobody is working upwards from Series S, it's the PS5 and X that are the foundation for titles generally. If you don't agree in regards the implications of that by this point in the conversation, there isn't much point in arguing it further.

Your personal preference aligns with my general thinking for a console but these days they're so similar and with MS and Sony peripherals fully supporting PC now, you should really look into Steam Big Picture mode. This video demonstrates how easy the setup will be...

I have zero interest in PC gaming, it's just not for me.

 

[KenMasters]

PERFORMANCE PRO (Default for PlayStation 5 Pro)

This mode targets a smooth 60 frames per second while retaining the image quality of the standard Fidelity mode through use of PlayStation Spectral Super Resolution (PSSR). All ray-tracing (RT) features are on, including ray-traced reflections, ray-tracing on water, and ray-traced window interiors. This mode is recommended for most players.

FIDELITY PRO

This mode targets 30 frames per second for players who want to experiment with new ray-tracing graphical features. These new features can be tuned individually to reach higher intermediate frame rates, especially when using the “VRR” or “120 Hz Display Mode” options. Pedestrian and traffic density may be increased in some areas, and fine hair detail is increased.

NEW GRAPHICAL TOGGLES

RT Reflections & Interiors : Medium (Performance) / High (Fidelity default)
Set the quality level for ray-traced reflections and building window interiors. The “Medium” setting ray-traces at half render resolution, and the “High” setting ray-traces at full render resolution. The “High” setting will also improve smoothness of animation in reflections and interiors. Only available in the “Fidelity Pro” graphics mode.

RT Ambient Occlusion : Off (Performance) / Medium / High (Fidelity default)
Use ray-tracing to compute additional ambient occlusion lighting information. The “Medium” setting uses that information to augment screen-space ambient occlusion. The “High” setting also adds a screen-space GI bounce for additional ambient lighting information. The visual impact of this feature will vary greatly based on the scene.

Unique to Spider-Man:
RT Key Light Shadows: Off (Performance) / On (Fidelity default)
Use ray-tracing to calculate sun shadows at mid- to far-distance, replacing cascaded shadow maps. This improvement is most impactful on city views. Only available in the “Fidelity Pro” graphics mode.

 

[MarioAna]

I can't wait for PS6, this console generation is killing me with how we are accepting mediocrity.

You are going to be disappointed then. From PS5 Pro to PS6 isn’t going to be massive either.

Seems like the PC crowd only measure frame rate as being a step up requirement. A new CPU on top of the other changes would have taken the price to even more ridiculous levels. Worse though, they don’t want to big a gap between Pro and Base and that would do it.

The next big advancement should not be about game performance or IQ, it should be about making games faster and cheaper. The AAA industry cannot keep going the way it is now.

 

[Nyt Ryda]

You are going to be disappointed then. From PS5 Pro to PS6 isn’t going to be massive either.

It's going to be great. Tech has already made great steps, and tech in 2027/28 will have moved on a huge amount since the 4800S/RX6700.

Seems like the PC crowd only measure frame rate as being a step up requirement.

No, plenty PS owners expressed interest in the Pro if it guaranteed 60fps.

A new CPU on top of the other changes would have taken the price to even more ridiculous levels.

Yes and Sony sells a bunch of overpriced UHD Blu Ray players because they are a hardware manufacturer interested in profits, as someone else points out repeatedly in this thread.

The 5700x3D (2 gens behind current AMD PC hardware) costs consumers $160 from China and is easily 2x as fast as the console CPUs in CPU limited titles at 1080p, I'm sure Sony could've got a great deal and chucked it into the Pro for for an extra $100ish for 60fps in every game and many many people would pay the premium.

Worse though, they don’t want to big a gap between Pro and Base and that would do it.

They were fine with it last gen, sales were excellent.

The next big advancement should not be about game performance or IQ, it should be about making games faster and cheaper. The AAA industry cannot keep going the way it is now.

Not a Sony problem. If you want fast cheap games you can have your pick from the $20-30 indies that feel very much like games that were made quickly and cheaply.

Even looking at the AAA scene, you can see how Ragnarok and Spiderman 2 (even Elden Ring Shadow of the Erdtree although it's DLC) fell far short of the heights of their predecessors because they felt so similar. Modern audiences want games that are a huge step up from before, and that sort of thing takes 5+ years like Ghost of Yotei, Naughty dog, Rockstar, Kojima, etc

 

[DarkPrince]

This whole bull**** quality and performance mode needs to go. If they expect people to spend £700 on a revised console that they have already spent £350-400 on the damn thing better play the same games in the best possible way not give the same options the earlier model did with slightly better image quality that won't be noticed outside of still images.

 

[KenMasters]

Yes and Sony sells a bunch of overpriced UHD Blu Ray players....

Sony's Ultra HD BD players are actually the cheapest on the market.

They were fine with it last gen, sales were excellent.

The PS4 Pro wasn't considered a big improvement over the PS4, it was generally criticised for not offering more. Seems to me the PS5 Pro is better poised to offer more above the standard console.

EDIT:

 

[Nyt Ryda]

Sony's Ultra HD BD players are actually the cheapest on the market.

Still overpriced, cheapest Sony UHD BD player in SA is R11499 right now and the PS5 disc edition is R11999. Videophiles and audiophiles used to being price gouged I guess, probably why the PS5 Pro is an easy sell to you.

The PS4 Pro wasn't considered a big improvement over the PS4, it was generally criticised for not offering more. Seems to me the PS5 Pro is better poised to offer more above the standard console.

Reviewers were impressed with it at launch, coming in at the same price helped a ton.

The PlayStation 4 Pro is the most powerful video game console currently available and offers very impressive performance for the price.

Source : https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/10/playstation-4-pro-review-impressive-performance#:~:text=The PlayStation 4 Pro is,or-less an essential purchase.

Games like Horizon Zero Dawn look absolutely stunning on the Pro. The world is filled with more detailed textures, better lighting, and more detail all around. The cutscenes and gameplay are so sharp on a 4K TV that they legitimately felt like a next generation title—I easily noticed how much clearer it was.

Source : https://www.wired.com/review/review-sony-playstation-4-pro/

You're getting over twice the GPU power, a faster CPU, future-proofed display and streaming media support - and twice the hard drive space. The price-point is keen enough that it's going to take some seriously aggressive bundling deals to make the standard PlayStation 4 look appealing.

Source : https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2016-playstation-4-pro-review



And yet even with the PS4 Pro coming in at that same price, some reviewers thought that if you were already on a PS4 it was still a tough choice to upgrade despite the leap having a 227% faster GPU and 31% more powerful CPU. Now we have a 45% faster GPU, PSSR tech, an posssibly 10% more CPU performance as per the leaks (although nothing officially from their presentation) and a much higher price.

But yes now you can post screenshots and enjoy F1 with RT and PSSR on the €799 Pro. You can finally experience what we had on PC in 2021 where we already had 60FPS raytracing with ML upscaling on a RTX3060 for €329

 

[KenMasters]

Still overpriced, cheapest Sony UHD BD player in SA is R11499 right now and the PS5 disc edition is R11999.

This speaks to keeping console prices as low as possible, making up the numbers through software. With a BD player, the hardware itself is the revenue model (the Pro slotting into the latter category).

EDIT: Not that it's important, but a Sony X700 Ultra HD player should retail for less than half the price of a PS5 (though I don't believe Sony operates in SA).

Reviewers were impressed with it at launch, coming in at the same price helped a ton.

Pricing not withstanding, the same will be said (and is already being said) of the PS5 Pro.

And yet even with the PS4 Pro coming in at that same price, some reviewers thought that if you were already on a PS4 it was still a tough choice to upgrade...

Indeed, it's much the same case...

...despite the leap having a 227% faster GPU and 31% more powerful CPU. Now we have a 45% faster GPU, PSSR tech, an posssibly 10% more CPU performance as per the leaks (although nothing officially from their presentation) and a much higher price.

...with the exception of the pricing, which does make it a different situation. They were able to lower the price on the base PS4 substantially and offer the Pro at the launch price, from my understanding that's not a viable strategy in the current market. I suppose we will see how it works, or doesn't, for Sony.

As for the specs, I think the images I posted get the point across that there's more to the end result.

But yes now you can post screenshots and enjoy F1 with RT and PSSR on the €799 Pro. You can finally experience what we had on PC in 2021 where we already had 60FPS raytracing with ML upscaling on a RTX3060 for €329

Sure, and to go for a PC instead is your choice. There's also no cause to upgrade if you don't want to, the PS5 remains the PS5. Whatever makes most sense for the individual.

 

[Telegamer]

this reminds me of old times